Question and Answer (or Question and Question?) Part Two

You describe that it is as if the world is constantly being destroyed and created at every moment. What if that is exactly what is happening? With every time you perceive the world, you are observing the world, loving it, and so it destroys itself (much like the way you destroy thought). However, in each moment you (and perhaps every other being in the universe) recreate the world again.

I am not sure that it is a matter of recreating the world at each moment. When you are in the moment, there is a great surge of energy there; you are no longer burdened by the weight of thought, and the energy that was formerly wasted is now freed. The destruction comes because thought has nothing to hang on to. There is no fantasy that can be built through time, and no thought that can bring security and root you to the ground. Another way to look at it is to say that the past meets the present, but it goes no further. If the past meets the present and continues forward, then all that we see is false. Thought (the past), moves forward, meeting the present. If it stops - meaning, it does not continue forward - then everything is constantly new, and consequently, the old is continuously destroyed.

But be careful; when we talk about having no security, we are talking about the false security of thought. There can be no security in thought, although there seems to be something there. If you have a thought that makes you secure, what happens when the condition ensuring the continuity of that security is challenged or taken away? You are lost completely, and broken. The pain is unbearable. So, living in the “security” of thought is living inside of a time-bomb; it is only a matter of time before it detonates, leaving only ruin.

If we say, “In each moment we recreate the world,” what exactly is it that does the recreating? Are we building a world we believe to be right and just using our idea of what it should be? Are we seeing the world with our thoughts, in that case? Creating it from what we have been taught? If that is true then are we really seeing the world, or just our thoughts about it? This is important to consider. If you see your idea of the world, are you really seeing anything other than your idea? How can someone think that they create the world with their thoughts? We cannot even use thought to be compassionate or to help feed the millions of the world. How can I trust that what I believe about the world is correct in any way? Why should I trust that thought has any use other than a mechanical function? All thought is of the past. How can I use that, in any way, to tell me what the world is in the moment?

It is interesting that so many people are now following a new system of thought about the world. They say they create the world through their thoughts. In essence it is true, but it is not real. They do create a world through their thoughts. But the world they create, and the world they live in, is a world of thought. As we have said before, thought is of the past. How can anything I see be real, if I live through my projected thoughts? All I am seeing is what I want it to be; the conditions of my personal reality. And if those conditions are not met, what do you suppose will happen? War.

Again, I am not saying that I am right and you should listen to me. I am not saying that I have a belief and it is the right one. (If I have a belief, I am right there with all of the rest of them; projecting my own fantasy world, waiting for the day when I go to war)

One theory I have heard is that the world/reality is held together by agreement. Or alternatively as you might be more familiar with, an ongoing intention to create the world. And in order to participate in this universe, a being would have to accept these agreements. And using intention one can shape the world to some small degree. Perhaps, if all beings ceased thought, the universe might cease to exist

In part the reason I bring this up is to find out whether you still have an interest in understanding the nature of reality and to see if there is still more to be learned once one has destroyed his illusions.

I have heard of the theory you mentioned, but I know next to nothing about it. But I wonder, do I really need to accept anything in order to participate in the universe? If I accept these agreements as true, as a fact, then there is no need to hang onto them; they would simply be facts. But, if I accept these agreements with the idea of following a system in order to see, am I really seeing anything?

Don’t get me wrong, I am constantly reading something. And I enjoy all manner of works. I would probably enjoy reading about the various agreements at length. But I have no need to use those things like a filter, through which I see the world. If something is a fact, it is a fact. However, if I hang onto it and live my life through my thoughts, it is a fantasy.

I am interested in learning, and I enjoy reading about the universe and the various theories that spring up from time to time. But I wonder what you mean by the word “learning“. Do you mean the physical and mechanical means of aquiring knowledge? Like learning to drive a car, learning another language, or learning a subject in school? Or do you mean learning in the sense that you aquire something that will make you into something better? You study a philosophy or religion in order to get something spiritual or to become something later? To achieve some state of mind? To understand what you really are?

Can those things be learned?

If you read something about enlightenment, and you believe it, and you explore yourself based on what someone else told you, seeing through their eyes as it were, then what is being learned? In that case, is anything aquired other than more knowledge? It is not useless to read these things, but I wonder, if anything is given to us by another, as in this example, can it lead us out of the darkness? When you question these things, don’t assume that it will or it won’t, or that it is right or wrong. See it for whatever it is.

Also, I would suggest that you might find reading the works of Eckhart Tolle useful. He experienced the same sort of event that you did, and he may help to provide the language you are seeking to communicate your experience. I have indeed noticed that your more recent posts to your blog communicate much better.

You are the third person to tell me about Tolle’s work in the last few days. I am now compelled to look into it! Thank you very much for your willingness to help me communicate more completely. It is greatly appreciated.

And thank you for your compliment on my recent posts. Although, after reading this, you may change your mind!

On Monday : Part Three

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6 Comments

  1. Hampton
    Posted Sunday, June 3, 2007 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Thank you for your replies and going into such depth. I appreciate getting to see your viewpoint and communicate with you.

    I wanted to share another experience (oh boy, I hope I am not overloading you with these). I went dancing recently and experienced a moment of is-ness. There were almost no thoughts, no division of . Nothing was wrong, nothing was right, no love, no joy, no beauty. Dancing occurred in front of me, but all I perceived was is-ness.

    I would like to suggest something and I hope you do not take offense. Perhaps it is right or wrong, my mind continues to evolve and I cannot say. The moment you died, a belief shift occurred. You decided that this moment was perfect, that your thoughts were what was making you suffer. You experience the effects of that belief. That belief creates an experience that is wonderful and joyous and perfect and needs nothing more.

    Without mind there cannot be thought, cannot be concepts. What is a flower, a person, a fact, a now, an I? You see a page of a book, I see paper colored black and white. I am coming to think it is all reflections - even the experiences - of oneself.

    However I perceive you whether it be helpful, wise, indifferent, a dream, a guru, etc. is just a reflection of my mind or consciousness. What is real is whatever we each say is real, what is fantasy is whatever we each say is fantasy. These two statements are I think my realization. Now I just have to decide what is real. And being attached to thought certainly doesn’t seem to help :)

  2. Posted Tuesday, June 5, 2007 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    It is true that we can believe something to be joyous and we will indeed experience joy. It is not a difficult thing to get our heads around. Or we can believe something to be horrible and we will live in that horror.

    I wanted to find out what is there without belief at all. Not say that it is right or wrong. If I believe it to be right, I have gone nowhere. I would still be inside of thought.

    If in the moment of death, a belief shift occurred, then I would question if death actually arrived. If I decide the moment is perfect, then I am sure to see my idea of perfection. But then again, I have to have an idea of what is right, then project it onto reality, then everything I see is perfect. If that is what I do, am I really seeing anything? Or just my idea of what is perfect?

    And what happens if someone or something challenges my idea of perfection?

    It is a serious thing we should all consider at some point in our lives. If I decide what perfection is, have a conclusion, and live through that, is that living? I am still seeing through thought, although it might be a prettier thought than the last one.

  3. Posted Tuesday, June 5, 2007 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    I forgot to mention about that is-ness you spoke of. It is startling when it happens, isn’t it? It seems to be more pronounced during physical activities, but that could be just because the entire body is in action; in concert with the moment. I have not really gone over that.

  4. Hampton
    Posted Tuesday, June 5, 2007 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    I see what you are saying. Would you say you believe in gravity or something like that? What I am trying to determine is whether there may be beliefs which you are not aware of, which exist in the mind below the level of conscious thought. I wonder it is actually possible to live completely without belief.

    For example if I have a candle in front of me, I may think I will not touch the flame because I will experience pain. This is in some sense a belief - until I touch the flame I do not know what will happen.

    As for the is-ness, I do not know. Recently I have come to think that what I have been feeling is a detachment or flatness (no emotion, no thought) rather than is-ness. Something happened recently which made me question this. I was woken from deep sleep. As I awoke, for a fraction of a second I experienced bliss, and then thought and sight rushed in. One of the Advaita teachers said that the deepest non-dreaming level of sleep is closest to pure awareness. I intend to see if I can experience again this by waking myself up prematurely.

  5. Posted Wednesday, June 6, 2007 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    I do not believe in gravity, but that is only because of the word “believe”. Why should I believe in gravity? I use the word “believe” meaning, a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing. It seems that belief implies attachment.

    Why should I attach myself to the “idea” of gravity? Gravity is a fact. I can drop my pen, and it consistently falls downward. Not once has it gone against gravity.

    Other than a need or an interest in the specific details, I do not need to be told anything about gravity. It is there, and I can observe it. The same with the Sun. Why should I waste energy setting up a belief or a system telling me that the sun will rise tomorrow? If I believe it or not, it will be there. And if it isn’t, I won’t know the difference because I’ll be dead (you too!).

    That is why I have said before that it seems like I am being picky over trivial semantic details. But that is not the case.

    Some people use the word “belief” to mean any thing factual. I don’t use it that way. 2 + 2 = 4. That is a fact. Why should I believe it? There is a great deal of energy invested in beliefs.

    I am not exchanging one thing for another. I am not saying, I don’t believe this because I believe THIS instead. There is no difference there. Having a belief would seem to imply that something is right, while something else is wrong. If you believe something, you exclude something else. Otherwise, how could there be any belief? So, if that is the case, belief has conflict built right into it.

    I still wonder if I am able to transmit this at all.

  6. Hampton
    Posted Thursday, June 7, 2007 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Yes, what you are saying about belief comes across quite clearly. I tend to waste a good bit of energy on it at times.

    One interesting thought that popped into my head is that this is very similar to how intention manifestation works. I say that something is a fact (I will get a new car, meet a particular person) and it happens. As Jesus said, believe that you have already received it, and you will.

    Perhaps one day I can surprise you by making the pen not drop :) That would be quite an experience! I still have a good bit of work to do before I can make that happen.

2 Trackbacks

  1. [...] by takuin on Friday, January 25, 2008 – 12:00 pm This comes from the comments on the post, Question and Answer (or Question and Question?) Part Two. Would you say you believe in gravity or something like that? What I am trying to determine is [...]

  2. By Takuin Minamoto » Blog Archive » Belief in Death on Wednesday, March 5, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    [...] Written by takuin on Wednesday, March 5, 2008 – 4:29 pm This comes from the comments on, Question and Answer (or Question and Question?) Part Two. (Plus, something new at the end.) I would like to suggest something and I hope you do not take [...]

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