Photo by Takuin Minamoto
Question of the Week: 8/11 - 8/17
I listened to your last podcast and have a question. Isn’t the relationship between the teacher and the student necessary for the student to progress to the next level? Aren’t the teachers there to point out the door for us?
Let’s be clear about one thing first: I can never tell you how it is going to be, or what is going to happen with any degree of exacting accuracy.
Assuming that you want to know what is beyond the thoughts you believe, one must go into many things; not only teacher/student relationships.
Some might affirm, “My teacher or teaching has shown me the right way, and now I have arrived.” Now what exactly does this mean? Having arrived assumes that one has stopped completely; that one has settled into a solid, remembered, memorized location. Where exactly have you arrived to? Enlightenment? Awakening? Liberation? Oneness?
I can tell you one thing, if you say you are there, if you know you are there, if you believe you are there, then you are lost. At the point of no center, there is absolutely no way of knowing who has arrived at any point, at any time. So how is it possible for one to say, “Yes, I have arrived!”
It is the height of arrogance for one to claim that these things belong to him or her. How can an identity ever be there? How can this person still exist in belief after belief if there is liberation?
Liberation is freedom from ALL authority. Inward and outward. Even the philosophies of your own making are built from materials given to you by others. Can you see this for yourself?
I am not at all saying that it will happen in this way, or that this is the very thing you are looking for. But if there is a complete liberation, will there be anyone left to consume the sweet nectar of that fruit? Can the bliss be enjoyed by someone that knows they are there?
This bliss, this divinity, this whatever it is, is outside of all imaginings of thought. It is completely new and reborn. It is simultaneous birth and death, construction and destruction, start and finish. It may sound beautiful to you, but in the center of the self, one can only project their idea about it, then view it as a spectator. It is the hand-me-down, passed from one searcher to another.
Liberation is complete freedom, and it is devoid of all things you may imagine about it. But do not believe this, build it up into something to achieve, then use violence in order to get it. See these things as they arise in you and find out for yourself.
You ask if the teacher is there to point out the door to us. It sounds like an absolutely right thing, doesn’t it? We seek, then the guru talks to us and says, “Yes it is all so wonderful. You must walk in this direction and go through that door. I cannot take you there, as you must do it for yourself.” That may even sound similar to the very things I write on this blog. But where is the door?
In the physical world, if we move toward a door, there is time involved in order to get from here to there. But inwardly, this world within, can any movement be made? Is there time at all? I don’t mean to ask can you imagine going from place to place and the time it takes to get there. But if one wishes to see what they are, can any movement be made at all? And to where? And what is it that will move in order to get there?
I don’t think human beings question this at all. At least, it doesn’t seem to be the case. They just accept that in order to be free, they need to work at it, effort at it, and through dint of that hard work, they will be rewarded later. Does that scenario sound familiar to any of you? QUESTION IT!
Some say, “If you look at the finger pointing to the moon, you will miss the glory of the very thing it points to.”
I say, “Forget the finger; there is no moon!“
4 Comments
so are you saying there is no path to the path of no path which will lead you to the destination that does not exist but must be realized? Then isn’t saying “I have arrived” the same as saying “I have not arrived and I must go further.” Which statement is more arrogant?
To understand that the finger is not the moon and neither is the moon the moon it seems many will require a “path’ to what is NOT what it IS.
And since there are so many paths and so many teachers pointing to paths, it really doesn’t matter what path or teacher is chosen since all will get you to what is what is NOT so that you can know what is. Truth comes when truth comes. Isn’t that the only certainty?
I like your method of provoking thought. Who was your teacher and what is your path or is your truth “a pathless land”?
Thanks,
mike S
@Mike
I am not saying it is, or is not, any or all of these things. If one is there, the words lose their meaning.
But is it true? Is a path required at all? We assume this to be the case; that it seems to be this way. But I am not interested in the way things seem.
I am not saying it is or it isn’t. But one needs to see this for themselves, either way.
Well, there is also death and taxes.
There are countless teachers, systems, paths, etc., as you have pointed out. But look at this mess humanity is in. If these things couldn’t free us 10,000 years ago, will they do so now?
So I start with this; the system is broken. The old methods and systems are not the answer. And that includes any method of my own creation.
So where does that leave one? Where does one begin? How is it possible to move from there? Get to it!
I talk about the only teacher I ever had in a podcast on this post. Not really a teacher, per se, but what happened turned out to be a defining moment (others have said).
If I say, “Yes, K was right, and truth is a pathless land,” then I am just fooling myself. If I believe it to be true, all is lost. In order to find out, one needs to cast aside any notion of what is believed to be there.
It is all available now. No one can give it to you.
I love how deeply you see this, Takuin.
To ‘Where is the Door?’ I would have to say “where is the door not?’ It is all a door. I fully agree there is no destination as a place nor end to a journey that never began. The ‘path’ is a progression of openings to what already is. As what is is infinite, there is no arrival. One seems to step through a door, only to find a yet bigger space.
Will anyone be left to enjoy? Yes, because what is lost remains. It cannot be lost or found. Vasishta says “One cannot say [apparent form] is real, or unreal, but one can only say that their substratum (consciousness) alone is real.”
Effort is apparently needed when awareness is on the level of doing. When one steps beyond doing, it is no longer needed, unless one wishes to achieve on the level of action.
@Davidya
Ah, I see what you mean. Effort is apparently needed on that level of doing. That is right. I question the need for that level of doing, and thereby also question if the answer can be found on the outside.
I say outside because even if it seems to be inner work, it is usually designed from something given to you by someone else. “Take my method and you will find yourself.” That sort of thing. Again, I am not saying right or wrong. Just questioning the whole thing.
But I guess one could say, even in inquiry, one is doing something, right?
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