Question of the Week: 9/22 - 9/28
This great question comes from iamasimpleman on the short post, No Mystery. This is a great and deep topic that human beings seldom explore in themselves.
I have read your words several times and the begin to touch my heart. But there is something against it which comes directly from my heart, anger. And this anger says, want to say, sit Takuin in a time machine to Ausschwitz and than let him talk to these people. I can tell you and send you to a thousand places in history.
So in a way your words would sound to people also arrogant and ignoring undoubtfull facts in form of flowery words. Now the anger is out, outside.
Thank you for your words still touching
This is a deep and expansive area to go into, and I am grateful that you have brought it up. Let’s explore this a little bit.
(By the way, I may say You many times in the following paragraphs, but I do not necessarily mean you personally, iamasimpleman.)
I understand your words, but I do not understand what you mean. If there is anger, where does it come from? From what Takuin says? Is that possible?
Find out from where this anger arises.
What is it that you have added to the words? Takuin says something, and someone else may get angry. Are they angry at the words? How can someone be angry at a word? How can someone be angry with a sound? The only reason anger may arise is due to the story in the mind; the story of what the words mean, and what it means to an identity.
This is Your Teaching
These things that arise within will teach you everything you need to understand about this world. Do not be angry and point outward; be angry and point inward. Find out why these things arise. Forget about someone making you angry.
You mentioned that Takuin may be ignoring certain things, but what exactly is being ignored? The horrors of Nazi Germany were very real, but how can you wish for it to be different from what it was? It was real and it happened. That is what is. It is not good, not great, and not the ideal world we want to live in, but that is what we have.
Now, if you see that, and understand it completely, what will you do with it? Use it to get mad? Use it to be right? We have seen the horrors. What will you do with it?
It is not ignoring anything. We see it, we know it. We are there. Now, what do you do? Take the step for yourself. What do you do?
Look Within
All anger is inside. All war is inside. It does not exist outside of us. It is the bastard child of humanity. We have created all of this suffering that has gone on in this world. The death, the struggle, the horror, is all the result of what we believe. So if you wish to end it, that is where to start. Don’t look to others to give this freedom to you.
If this war has ended within you, then your actions become clear. Then everywhere you move, it moves with you. You will never have a question of what is right or wrong. You cannot help but bring peace.
You also brought up going back into the past and talking to those various peoples that have suffered greatly. This is interesting to go into, and it brings up many things. For example, human beings do not learn from these mistakes. If we could, all war would have ended thousands of years ago.
We see this pain and suffering, the inhumanity, the murders, rapes, and executions, but we let it go on. We do not stop it. We say things like, “How can you say it is all within, when all of this war is going on? How dare you ignore this!” That is all well and good, but you let it go on and on. You do nothing to stop it. Don’t look to others to tell you what to do. End this now. You can do it.
Each time you point a finger, it strengthens war and suffering. See this for yourself, and do not take my word for it. Go there and find out. Then, you will never again ask how to live your life.
18 Comments
“[war] is the bastard child of humanity.”
Well put. Another succinct message about the drama of the world.
It is interesting the example he used - it was not something in his experience that angers him but rather a story told by others. A horrid story indeed from our history, but not one we can change now - as you observed. This distances us from real change, being able to do something now. We cannot move the present while we are absorbed in the past or future. We cannot end war when the war continues within.
Peace is only now. Ending war is very simple.
Dear Davidya.
I dry to explain again what I meant about ignoring facts with nice words.
My proposal go to Palestine sit by the people and say the last sentence of your comment again looking in their eyes.
What Takuin said or wrote to me was right in many aspects. He was right, but on the other hand what I was writing to him was also right and so he can learn from me and I can learn from him, to open our blind-spots.
Think at young people in Palestine, they were programmed through there circumstances. And we are programmed anyway by our genes and agression is one
programm it is there for survival and we have to handle it. Our brothers and sisters, the wounderfull lyons,foxes, panthers, eagles, chimpanzees they have similar programmes.
You can repeat words like “Peace is only now. Ending war is very simple.” a thousand times that makes them not true for every situation in the world. They are only words, sounding great and lovley. You cannot put them over every situation, if you do it then you are rude and ignorant to some people or situation.
I choosed the example with Auschwitz because I am from Austria and I am living
in Germany and so it has alot to do with me and the history is still present in my generation. And a very near person is from chile and I can tell you, I was there
in chile the trauma is present in the people.
So be carefull with sentences like “Peace is only now. Ending war is very simple.”
These are only words, and nearly with the same words you can say: War is now. Ending peace is very simple”
Tony Parson an Advaita-teacher from England uses one sentence very often “It is only aliveness”
By the way also answering to Takuin I dont think we can do anything to stop this,
only to be aware about it and not ignoring it with puting flowery sentences like:”Peace is only now. Ending war is very simple.” over it.
So you see I am sometimes frightend by war and evil but agression is a part of my live and live in common.
Ending with words from Jesus:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
( Matthew 10, Line 34)
In this sense enjoying communicate on this side.
Best regards
iamasimpelan
@iamasimpleman: “the history is still present”. From my experience this perspective is a choice. Speaking only of my “story” I have found that being a victim was a personal choice I continuously made for most of my life. Being a victim gave me moral superiority. self pity and a thoroughly rich and dramatic role to play. But there is a trade off; if you want to point the finger of guilt at others and shout “They are to blame, God, not I” then you will have to suffer.
For myself there came a time when I was no longer happy in my misery. I began to see the baggage of my past that was nothing but a burden, and yet seemed to be so necessary. I am in the process of letting it all go. It is very scary; it is uncharted territory for me. But it is also very liberating. Every day I am a little lighter, a little more at peace.
I do not dismiss the suffering of those you speak of, iamasimpleman, for I understand that it is a reality that many share. I sit here, one of the lucky 2% on this planet, and I will not pretend to know what they are going through. But I do believe there is a way out suffering for each of us. Indeed it is our life’s mission, one might say, to find it. I sincerely hope that you, and those you speak for, find it. I just don’t feel that carrying the past around with us, especially if we only use it to impose guilt, will help.
Peace to all.
“Karl Renz_Talks in Tiruvannamalai 28.01.07 ” on YouTube in english.(He is from germany)
iamasimpelman
iamasimpleman,
You think war cannot come to an end. You believe that. So you can only add to it. If you believe that, you will stay there. It is up to you. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but that is the way it is.
You have come to a conclusion, through whatever means, and you will stay there. It is not terrible, but you will feel the pain caused by the limits of that belief.
I see no flowery sentences; no flowery words. It is all very simple; if you believe war cannot end, you will do nothing to stop it.
You go to Palestine, sit with the people, look them in the eyes, and tell them you will do nothing to stop war. It is all up to you.
(Again, this is not personal, and I don’t necessarily mean you)
I watched that video, by the way. It was very interesting. It is my first time to know Karl Renz. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. He seems like a funny and genuine person.
I dont add to it. I let it run but be aware. It is not my war, but like you said war is in us. I agree it is in our genetic programm. We are living in a dualistic world, war will always be a part of it. In which form is another question. You cannot destroy the shadow by ignoring it, you make it bigger. You have to look on your warside be aware of it live it in one or another form. These are my last words about this theme.
Now its your field to talk about and we meet again with a new theme.
Best wishes
iamasimpelman
P.S.To my name simpel is the word in germany means the same as simple in english
iamasimpelman
Thank you for sharing your feelings. Perhaps for you my words seem hollow and heartless. But they are not. They arise in peace itself, the heart of hearts.
I do not need to travel to Palestine to see suffering. I have seen it in the streets of my own city. In the Psych wards were those tortured by fear end up. And I have looked such people, even friends, in the eyes and reminded them of the peace they have within.
I know this peace as I have ended many of my own battles within. And Tony is right. It is only aliveness. And that aliveness is a liveliness of silence, of peace.
Perhaps another way to put it - to end darkness all that is needed is light. Peace is much more powerful than war as it arises in what is, now. Our recent history is full of violence but it has not always been that way. Like all things, time moves in cycles, cycles of light and darkness. There have been times of light much longer than our recorded history. Times of deep peace where no one lived in fear. We are in a time of waking to that inner peace again. With luck, we will live to see the end of war return.
You don’t need to believe this. It’s just my story. But we dream of that time because we know it can be.
What is present is what we believe. If you believe in history, it will be real. But remember the past is only memory. You add to it by making it real for yourself now. You add to it by believing IN it. You add to it by telling people what you believe. You add to it by giving it your attention. Attention is much more powerful than we realize.
As Takuin says, this is not a criticism. There is no right and wrong here. But if you do not see that you have made this choice, you do not see what you believe. Like the American in the video you suggested. (good one. I’m Canadian
Yes, you have to look at your war side, see your shadow, and allow it. But then go deeper and see through it. Let it go. Rather than believe in war, why not step towards peace? Rather than arguing for pain, why not look for solutions?
Thank you for your honesty and drawing out the finer points.
Thank you Davidya for your honest words. I thought about the aborigines and how they lived. For me they are some ideal picture of living in the nature as part of the nature. That I repeated your sentence so very often is a form of upper austrian(where I come from) humor, to provoque, we in upper austria like to do this for fun. You see culture is very strong, it is a language, and so it often comes to missunderstandings.
But you stayed calm and that impressed me. I felled Takuin much more fighty like me. Thank you again for your words.
Good wishes
iamasimpelman
Thanks Davidya and Eric. Your points were well made and, perhaps, clearer than my own.
iamasimpelman, I am sorry about that! I didn’t notice it was spelled as “simpel.” It seems my brain automatically flipped the “e” and “l.”
About the post (and comments), it was never my intention to present a “correct way” to do things. If one sees the world in a particular way, I will not try to bring that world to an end. It has nothing to do with Takuin.
I write these posts and go deep in the comments in the hope that someone will take up the reigns and find out on their own. Someone is out there right now, posing these questions within, and that is important. The world may need these people; the ones that will not yield to external authority, or bend to the will of conformity.
Time will tell, of course, but it can’t be any worse than what we have already created.
About the fight… none of that is here. It is one of the difficulties in writing online. One only has the words to go by, so the intention of the speaker may be easily missed. That is one of the reasons I may release a video series. The audio posts seem to go over well, and I expect a video series might fare the same. (Feel free to make any suggestions on that, as well.)
But if there is any mis-communication, the fault lies with Takuin. All one can do is approach the essence. I cannot solidify these things, and that is why I am thankful for comments. At least here, we can go deeper into the topic and try to come together on these matters.
Thanks for all the wonderful interaction, and by all means, keep it going.
just my two cents
this is a very interesting conversation.
1. honestly, i have thought about what iamasimpelman has pointed out here.
before i proceed, we don’t really know what we are going to do or say unless
we are already in the situation that we are just hypothesizing about.
2. going to an area where there is war going on, and telling the people there
that “Peace is only now. Ending war is very simple” is a ridiculous action and
an utterly useless act.
as i understand, awareness, enlightenment, or whatever you call it is not an an anesthetic that dulls you and make you incapable of intelligent action.
3. certainly, ending war, the war that is actually going on, is not simple.
you cannot just go in the middle of it all and shout “Let there be peace” and
the peace shall come. no, it doesn’t happen that way. but someone who acts “intelligently” (i don’t mean intelligent as in cunning but intelligent as in without fragmentation) will know what to do when there’s war. what that person will do, we don’t know.
4. at this point, let must just distinguish between conflict and war. conflict
is inevitable because we are in a state of fragmentation. war is one of those
way humanity use to resolve conflict: since we cannot agree let’s just kill each other (or better yet, since we are too lazy to think of a better solution to our dilemma let’s just kill each other).
i’ve mentioned that conflict is the outcome of our “state of fragmentation”.
perhaps one may think that this state of fragmentation is the way things
“really” are; hence, conflict is inevitable.
in wholeness and the implicate order, david bohm offers an interesting insight about this fragmentation. let me just quote his exact words here:
“Some might say:’Fragmentation of cities, religions, political systems,
conflict in the form of wars, general violence, fratricide, etc. are the reality.
Wholeness is only an ideal, toward which we should perhaps strive.’ But this
is not what is being said here. Rather, what should be said is that wholeness
is what is real, and that fragmentation is the response of this whole to
man’s action, guided by illusory perception, which is shaped by fragmentary
thought. in other words, it is just because reality is whole that man,
with his fragmentary approach, will inevitably be answered with a correspondingly fragmentary response. So what is needed is for man to give attention to his habit of fragmentary thought, to be aware of it, and thus bring it to an end. Man’s approach to reality may then be whole, and so
the response will be whole.”
5. i do not believe that there will “always” be war. i don’t know what “always” is. saying that something is genetically programed to us doesn’t mean that it will surely happen. as i understand it, and i may be wrong, genes interact with the environment, when the environment is favorable for the expression of a “gene” it expresses itself; otherwise it remains dormant. a gene doesn’t act in a vacuum: it needs the proper conditions.
6. another distinction, war and aggression are not one and the same. aggression can be considered a “spontaneous” reaction of a person BUT not entirely spontaneous for aggression is determined by conditions happening inside the person. we can say that aggression is a “conditioned” reaction
just like any reaction is.
war is never a spontaneous event. war doesn’t just come into being in a day. it has recipes and takes time to be cooked. we prepare for war. it is systematic. it is strategical, scheming, a long tedious “thought process” is involved.
though we cannot just “simply” stop an actual war, we can prevent an
actual war from happening.
7. the trauma and all the hideous effects of war will surely be there.
one face it and we do what we have to do in that situation. certainly,
telling people “peace is now” in the face of someone in trauma is not one of those things.
when your house is on fire, you don’t light a candle nor get your bible and pray nor sit and meditate nor gather your neighbor and talk about enlightenment or being in the now. you do everything you can do to save what can be saved and let go of those that you cannot. but you can only do this if you yourself is safe.
8. and yes, i would not offer these musings to people who are “actually”
experiencing war or suffering the trauma of war. that what the situation needs.
but before anything else, i should bring sanity into myself, to put total
attention into my thoughts, call it awareness or whatever you like.
i’m doing this not because i was told to do it but because i have
seen the danger, the distraction, the suffering that inattention
causes me and other people. every one of us is another hitler in
the making if we don’t put an end to the war that is happening within us.
and if i don’t have the courage to end the war within myself,
i’m of no help to the people who are in shock, in pain, and who are suffering.
i only amplify and add to their burden….
i don’t know if i’m making any sense here.
:-)
P.S.
and yes, the human animal is no longer killing for physical survival.
war (as in World War 1, 2 what have you) is not for physical survival but for the survival of our “beliefs”.
Sass
You make many good points. I agree that simply telling people some platitude is pointless. That was not what I meant by the statement. It is understanding that. That peace arises within, the point Takuin makes. That is simplicity itself.
Perhaps it would be useful to offer a practical example of how peace ends war. There’s a meditation group that began bringing groups of meditators to war torn areas in the early ’80’s. When a group of sufficient size (a minor %) meditated together in the stricken area, the war would stop. Accident rates, crime and hospital admissions would drop too. When they left it would start up again, immediately. They did this a number of times in various parts of the world. They discovered they didn’t have to be in the middle of it, just nearby. They could even predict the % change in stats in advance. And they published the research in peer reviewed scientific journals.
But this is so outside the box of most peoples experience, it remains a curiosity and most people are unaware of it. More recently, other groups have begun things like The Intention Experiment and they’re finding this research and talking about it. Slowly, the possibility become more real.
The key to understand is that there is no individual to be fragmented. It is a mistake in perception, as Bohm says. When consciousness is enlivened, the perception of fragmentation ceases. When awareness is soothed, all are soothed. We are in this together. This is why I said peace is not hard.
It may be hard to see this, especially if you are caught up in it. But peace will surprise you when you least expect it, wash over you with happiness. Where is anger and conflict in that? It cannot be imagined.
Hi Davidya
“I agree that simply telling people some platitude is pointless. That was not what I meant by the statement. It is understanding that. That peace arises within, the point Takuin makes. That is simplicity itself. ”
Sorry, I wasn’t reacting to what you’ve said.
Just pointing out a ridiculous situation. 
The study is interesting. I hope I can stumble upon it. However, I am very cautious when it comes to studies that immediately equate incidents that are “correlated” to having a “causal” relationship. If you see what I mean. Certainly, I’m adopting a critical but an open attitude here, but it doesn’t mean that I am posing that something is wrong and that I know the right answer.
I am just investigating, inquiring to see. There are multiple causes; and “causes” and “effects” are quite so entangled together that teasing them apart and determining which is which is like being caught in a chicken-and-egg situation. And indeed, teasing them apart leads to fragmentation - as if we can be “truly” in the position that “certainly” separate causes from its effects. I don’t know if I’m actually verbally conveying what I truly meant here. One can sometimes be lost in translation. 
“But peace will surprise you when you least expect it, wash over you with happiness. Where is anger and conflict in that? It cannot be imagined.”
I agree. Expecting is effort. I can see that peace cannot be brought about by more “effort” as effort necessarily produces friction, and therefore conflict. I know this might sound simplistic but it seems that there is an inverse relationship between peace and effort: more effort = less peace; more peace= less effort.
Paradoxically, it seems that to have peace one must give up all efforts towards it. We prepare for war but not for peace.
sass - exactly - in the world, we accomplish by doing. In awareness, we “accomplish” by allowing, the opposite. So peace comes not from doing but from simple being.
Yes, its hard to prove a causal relationship between apparently unrelated things. Even trickier as the world is a false causality. (laughs) But when one predicts in advance the effect, the statistics become harder to ignore. The character Sherlock Holmes said “An ancestor of mine maintained that whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true.” I find this handy when reality makes a shift and no longer follows the rules (beliefs).
The research I’ve read about here and there. The latest I looked up and just summarizes it with no links. The point really isn’t if it can be scientifically proven though. Its simply that a group of mediators demonstrated several times they could end a war. The only reason they didn’t continue is they ran out of money. Most I understand were doing at their own expense. As Lynn McTaggart observed, they didn’t even have an intention to end the war. They simply gathered together and stepped into inner peace.
Of course, this is not the solution to all problems. But it is closely related. As Albert Einstein put it, “No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” When you expand enough to take a step back, the solution often presents itself. Only in stepping out of the box can you see the box clearly.
“Only in stepping out of the box can you see the box clearly.”
Indeed.
Sass and Davidya,
You both have gone into this very well. I can’t really bring much more to it.
It could be these aggressive acts will come to an end because humanity will finally see the danger and act accordingly. Or, it could be these aggressive acts will come to an end due to the extinction of humanity. At this moment, one seems more likely than the other.
None of us knows what will happen because there is no “will happen.” One can only sit with oneself and see how it all unfurls. From there, real movement may occur in the outer world; a movement that springs from a timeless space. Not a movement of protest and sign-carrying.
The self perceives the outer world as separate; something that “I” see, or something that is over there and “I” am over here. But what is it that is really happening?
People usually expect someone else will do it, or “It is not my responsibility.” Their favorite candidate gets elected and they say, “Now that he/she is in office, everything will be great.” And if the candidate from the other side gets elected it is, “Now that he/she is in office, things will continue to go downhill!” But not once do they look within and see the responsibility they have as human beings. Regardless of who is elected, it is your job, and not theirs.
This is such a cleansing topic, but people do not want to touch it. They would rather hold to what they know.
Even god cannot want what he wants.
http://www.premmedia.de/sites/images/Netclips/2007/16.1.07/can%20you%20want%20what%20you%20want….mov
There is no way out.
http://www.premmedia.de/sites/images/Netclips/2007/17.1.07/there%27s%20no%20way%20out….mov
Being nice to oneself and charitable to oneself and loughing with oneself is the only medicine and the only way out.
Best regards.
iamasimpelman
iamasimpelman,
Thanks for the video links. I’ll be sure to go into them when I have a spare moment.
Dear iamasimpelman,
Once, you could have said the same thing about Northern Ireland. People there choose to find a different way and life there has changed. If you continue to do the same violent things over and over, it is no wonder that violence continues. It is only when an individual decides to stop and choose another way that progress can finally be made.
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