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	<title>Comments on: Are You Enlightened?</title>
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	<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/</link>
	<description>{ The Writing of Takuin Minamoto }</description>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11293</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11293</guid>
		<description>Alone....

It is interesting to consider how words change meaning when reality changes. The dark alone of separation. The neutral alone of the independent observer. The dry alone of some newly awake. The rich alone of fullness. The intimate alone of oneness. 

When duality collapses, there can seem some paradoxes. Where fullness and emptiness are the same thing. Is the glass half empty or half full? Or is it both, neither, full and empty all at once? (laughs) Where alone can be deeply, richly intimate. 

You describe it beautifully, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alone&#8230;.</p>
<p>It is interesting to consider how words change meaning when reality changes. The dark alone of separation. The neutral alone of the independent observer. The dry alone of some newly awake. The rich alone of fullness. The intimate alone of oneness. </p>
<p>When duality collapses, there can seem some paradoxes. Where fullness and emptiness are the same thing. Is the glass half empty or half full? Or is it both, neither, full and empty all at once? (laughs) Where alone can be deeply, richly intimate. </p>
<p>You describe it beautifully, btw.</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11292</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11292</guid>
		<description>(laughs) The &quot;who&#039;s awake&quot; question actually illustrates the goal. When there is a goal of enlightenment, there is a desire to see examples of people who have &quot;made it&quot;. Examples were once rare and often uncertain.  Then, in early 2007, that really started to change. A friend of mine tried to keep a list but soon lost track... (laughs)

Still, it is very inspiring to see it is happening to real people not just some monks or other. Especially after having that damn goal for so many years (laughs)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(laughs) The &#8220;who&#8217;s awake&#8221; question actually illustrates the goal. When there is a goal of enlightenment, there is a desire to see examples of people who have &#8220;made it&#8221;. Examples were once rare and often uncertain.  Then, in early 2007, that really started to change. A friend of mine tried to keep a list but soon lost track&#8230; (laughs)</p>
<p>Still, it is very inspiring to see it is happening to real people not just some monks or other. Especially after having that damn goal for so many years (laughs)</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11290</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11290</guid>
		<description>Hi Isabella
It&#039;s a small world. I started blogging after taking your course with Carol back in 07 at SEARCH. Thanks!! We chatted a few times at Bloggers Meetups but I have not been in awhile...

Your description is quite clear. You see it but you believe it. It&#039;s just to see it a bit deeper. I&#039;ll let Takuin lead that...  

But it is interesting to reflect - the desire to escape is really a fear of escaping. Of letting go. The ego sense likes to flip it, to stay unescaped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Isabella<br />
It&#8217;s a small world. I started blogging after taking your course with Carol back in 07 at SEARCH. Thanks!! We chatted a few times at Bloggers Meetups but I have not been in awhile&#8230;</p>
<p>Your description is quite clear. You see it but you believe it. It&#8217;s just to see it a bit deeper. I&#8217;ll let Takuin lead that&#8230;  </p>
<p>But it is interesting to reflect &#8211; the desire to escape is really a fear of escaping. Of letting go. The ego sense likes to flip it, to stay unescaped.</p>
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		<title>By: takuin</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11264</link>
		<dc:creator>takuin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11264</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;one of the best posts on enlightenment i’ve seen in all the years of travelling the blogosphere! hopefully my blog will be healed soon...&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

Thank you very much Isabella. I did drop by your site and there is a bit of a problem...I hope you can have that resolved with little difficulty. 

&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;when i’m in the grip of flight anxiety, for example. once in a while, in a situation like that, i can go into it (thank you, pema!) but usually, i’m dominated by the desire to escape.&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

The desire to escape would seem to imply the anxiety is something outside of &lt;B&gt;you&lt;/B&gt;; something that attacks &lt;B&gt;you&lt;/B&gt; from some outside source. There is &lt;B&gt;you&lt;/B&gt;, then there is the anxiety affecting &lt;B&gt;you&lt;/B&gt;. 

But is that really what is happening?

What is the difference between the &lt;B&gt;you&lt;/B&gt; suffering from anxiety, and the anxiety?

You might say, &quot;Well, I know it is supposed to be this or that, but it still goes on.&quot; That is very true. You know what the answer should be, but it has not worked. So what will you do? 

This is not to deny the anxiety you feel, because if it is there, it is there. But the anxiety is not separate from the one wishing to escape it.

You say you see it, or go into it, or sit with it, and that is good. But how do you see it? Is it from your viewpoint where there is you and the object of your seeing? In other words, is it Isabella and her anxiety, and she looks at this from a separate viewpoint as if she might hold it in her hand to observe it? Or is there there actually no difference between the two?

In what way do you see these happenings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>one of the best posts on enlightenment i’ve seen in all the years of travelling the blogosphere! hopefully my blog will be healed soon&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Thank you very much Isabella. I did drop by your site and there is a bit of a problem&#8230;I hope you can have that resolved with little difficulty. </p>
<blockquote><p>when i’m in the grip of flight anxiety, for example. once in a while, in a situation like that, i can go into it (thank you, pema!) but usually, i’m dominated by the desire to escape.</p></blockquote>
<p>The desire to escape would seem to imply the anxiety is something outside of <b>you</b>; something that attacks <b>you</b> from some outside source. There is <b>you</b>, then there is the anxiety affecting <b>you</b>. </p>
<p>But is that really what is happening?</p>
<p>What is the difference between the <b>you</b> suffering from anxiety, and the anxiety?</p>
<p>You might say, &#8220;Well, I know it is supposed to be this or that, but it still goes on.&#8221; That is very true. You know what the answer should be, but it has not worked. So what will you do? </p>
<p>This is not to deny the anxiety you feel, because if it is there, it is there. But the anxiety is not separate from the one wishing to escape it.</p>
<p>You say you see it, or go into it, or sit with it, and that is good. But how do you see it? Is it from your viewpoint where there is you and the object of your seeing? In other words, is it Isabella and her anxiety, and she looks at this from a separate viewpoint as if she might hold it in her hand to observe it? Or is there there actually no difference between the two?</p>
<p>In what way do you see these happenings?</p>
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		<title>By: takuin</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11262</link>
		<dc:creator>takuin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11262</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;Alone? I had that sense for awhile, but not any more. Now it is very intimate. &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

The alone-ness is constant, but we might be speaking of similar things here. 

Alone-ness has nothing to do with loneliness, of course. It could also be called the ultimate intimacy (as silly as it may sound). 

There is a drawing in of breath, the exhalation, and so on. Like a small rock knocking into a cliff face as it falls; there is nothing, resounding, nothing, resounding, then nothing.

At the ending of all movement there is nothing; nothing to hold onto, and no real understanding of any-thing. But there is so much available energy there, as no-one is holding it down, suppressing, or controlling. 

It is easy to see the problem in all of this; people want to let go of control but are afraid to lose the controller.

Alone-ness, nothing-ness, whatever-ness, we&#039;ve heard these phrases all before. But if it is not lived completely, down to the cell, it is meaningless.

And if it is lived completely, down to the cell, it is still meaningless.

People are uncomfortable with that word; &lt;i&gt;Alone-ness&lt;/i&gt;. Perhaps giving up the controller is too much to ask. 

&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;Ah, you’re not going to tell me you don’t gossip about who’s awake?&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

Ugh...I could not be any less interested. It would be a shame to waste the energy of Alone-ness. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Alone? I had that sense for awhile, but not any more. Now it is very intimate. </p></blockquote>
<p>The alone-ness is constant, but we might be speaking of similar things here. </p>
<p>Alone-ness has nothing to do with loneliness, of course. It could also be called the ultimate intimacy (as silly as it may sound). </p>
<p>There is a drawing in of breath, the exhalation, and so on. Like a small rock knocking into a cliff face as it falls; there is nothing, resounding, nothing, resounding, then nothing.</p>
<p>At the ending of all movement there is nothing; nothing to hold onto, and no real understanding of any-thing. But there is so much available energy there, as no-one is holding it down, suppressing, or controlling. </p>
<p>It is easy to see the problem in all of this; people want to let go of control but are afraid to lose the controller.</p>
<p>Alone-ness, nothing-ness, whatever-ness, we&#8217;ve heard these phrases all before. But if it is not lived completely, down to the cell, it is meaningless.</p>
<p>And if it is lived completely, down to the cell, it is still meaningless.</p>
<p>People are uncomfortable with that word; <i>Alone-ness</i>. Perhaps giving up the controller is too much to ask. </p>
<blockquote><p>Ah, you’re not going to tell me you don’t gossip about who’s awake?</p></blockquote>
<p>Ugh&#8230;I could not be any less interested. It would be a shame to waste the energy of Alone-ness. <img src='http://www.takuin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: isabella mori</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11258</link>
		<dc:creator>isabella mori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11258</guid>
		<description>fascinating conversation, one of the best posts on enlightenment i&#039;ve seen in all the years of travelling the blogosphere!  hopefully my blog will be healed soon and i can refer to this in my next buddhist carnival.

&quot;easy to see intellectually, but not so easy to see when you are in it.&quot;

i&#039;d like to take that a step further.  i usually have no problem seeing it when i&#039;m in it.  there i stand, then, seeing how i am all tangled up in concepts, ideas, illusions, and i cannot leave it.  when i&#039;m in the grip of flight anxiety, for example.  once in a while, in a situation like that, i can go into it (thank you, pema!) but usually, i&#039;m dominated by the desire to escape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fascinating conversation, one of the best posts on enlightenment i&#8217;ve seen in all the years of travelling the blogosphere!  hopefully my blog will be healed soon and i can refer to this in my next buddhist carnival.</p>
<p>&#8220;easy to see intellectually, but not so easy to see when you are in it.&#8221;</p>
<p>i&#8217;d like to take that a step further.  i usually have no problem seeing it when i&#8217;m in it.  there i stand, then, seeing how i am all tangled up in concepts, ideas, illusions, and i cannot leave it.  when i&#8217;m in the grip of flight anxiety, for example.  once in a while, in a situation like that, i can go into it (thank you, pema!) but usually, i&#8217;m dominated by the desire to escape.</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11174</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11174</guid>
		<description>Yes, each of us has a different journey. I took up meditation to get rid of anxiety and such. It opened doors to unexpected vistas, so I went deep into the study, trying to find valid models that held up. Little did. Developed my own to some extent. 

I wondered sometimes if the concepts got in the way but really, it simply unfolded as it did. Sometimes, i felt some barrier, but when the barrier became clear, it would fall. 

Its useful to consider Maya, usually thought to mean illusion. When inertia is dominant, it behaves as a cover. When fire is dominant, it is the illusion or dream. When sattva becomes dominant, it becomes the ladder. In the same way, concepts can be a trap, an illusion, or a means to make the next step. The key is letting go of whatever no longer serves. 

That&#039;s the art of the journey, discovering how to let go more and more deeply. 

Alone? I had that sense for awhile, but not any more. Now it is very intimate. 

Ah, you&#039;re not going to tell me you don&#039;t gossip about who&#039;s awake? (laughs)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, each of us has a different journey. I took up meditation to get rid of anxiety and such. It opened doors to unexpected vistas, so I went deep into the study, trying to find valid models that held up. Little did. Developed my own to some extent. </p>
<p>I wondered sometimes if the concepts got in the way but really, it simply unfolded as it did. Sometimes, i felt some barrier, but when the barrier became clear, it would fall. </p>
<p>Its useful to consider Maya, usually thought to mean illusion. When inertia is dominant, it behaves as a cover. When fire is dominant, it is the illusion or dream. When sattva becomes dominant, it becomes the ladder. In the same way, concepts can be a trap, an illusion, or a means to make the next step. The key is letting go of whatever no longer serves. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the art of the journey, discovering how to let go more and more deeply. </p>
<p>Alone? I had that sense for awhile, but not any more. Now it is very intimate. </p>
<p>Ah, you&#8217;re not going to tell me you don&#8217;t gossip about who&#8217;s awake? (laughs)</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11173</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11173</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link. My first inclination was to give examples but am reminded that those who judge another are in the same boat. We could say: &lt;i&gt;anyone making statements about theirs or anyone else&#039;s state&lt;/i&gt;...

That&#039;s an even bigger flag if they rate themselves high and others low. But again, teachers will sometimes give examples. 

I am reminded of a old talk where a teacher asked about peoples experiences with other techniques. He always had something positive to say but the compliments varied from lightweight to admiring. It was the ones where compliments flowed you knew there was depth. And why.

One can go to guru busting sites and find critics for pretty much any teacher. The real proof is the teacher themselves. Do they shoot themselves? (laughs) Are the absolutely right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link. My first inclination was to give examples but am reminded that those who judge another are in the same boat. We could say: <i>anyone making statements about theirs or anyone else&#8217;s state</i>&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an even bigger flag if they rate themselves high and others low. But again, teachers will sometimes give examples. </p>
<p>I am reminded of a old talk where a teacher asked about peoples experiences with other techniques. He always had something positive to say but the compliments varied from lightweight to admiring. It was the ones where compliments flowed you knew there was depth. And why.</p>
<p>One can go to guru busting sites and find critics for pretty much any teacher. The real proof is the teacher themselves. Do they shoot themselves? (laughs) Are the absolutely right?</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11172</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11172</guid>
		<description>me again. Much of what we do is indeed from the &quot;I&quot;, for now. The key point though is doing vs being. 

You see it is happening and think something needs to be done. But that is just more happening. The secret is in not doing. Just seeing it. When you see it deeply enough, it will dissolve. What will remain is being. 

Takuin says the same thing. But said a different way, it can help seeing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>me again. Much of what we do is indeed from the &#8220;I&#8221;, for now. The key point though is doing vs being. </p>
<p>You see it is happening and think something needs to be done. But that is just more happening. The secret is in not doing. Just seeing it. When you see it deeply enough, it will dissolve. What will remain is being. </p>
<p>Takuin says the same thing. But said a different way, it can help seeing.</p>
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		<title>By: Davidya</title>
		<link>http://www.takuin.com/are-you-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-11171</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.takuin.com/?p=1014#comment-11171</guid>
		<description>(laughs) Thanks. Glad you saw the light. ;-)

In my 20&#039;s, a couple of sub-groups formed in my area around a leader. One was highly charismatic. With no intention on my part, I managed to cross paths with both. It taught me a great deal about how destructive that can be. &quot;premature immaculation&quot; was a term I heard more recently. 

I&#039;ve also seen how someone with very positive ideas about enlightenment can get caught by them, and someone with negative ideas about what it&#039;s not can be even more caught by that. All these ideas of right and wrong can get in the way of being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(laughs) Thanks. Glad you saw the light. <img src='http://www.takuin.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In my 20&#8242;s, a couple of sub-groups formed in my area around a leader. One was highly charismatic. With no intention on my part, I managed to cross paths with both. It taught me a great deal about how destructive that can be. &#8220;premature immaculation&#8221; was a term I heard more recently. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also seen how someone with very positive ideas about enlightenment can get caught by them, and someone with negative ideas about what it&#8217;s not can be even more caught by that. All these ideas of right and wrong can get in the way of being.</p>
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