Comments on: How Do You See The Enlightened? http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/ { The Writing of Takuin Minamoto } Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:25:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Takuin Minamoto » Blog Archive » Questions Arise… http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-3063 Takuin Minamoto » Blog Archive » Questions Arise… Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:58:08 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-3063 [...] just occurred to me that I have written on this subject before in the post How Do You See the Enlightened? And another post that may be of use is Can a Fragmented Mind Know Compassion? I have not read [...] [...] just occurred to me that I have written on this subject before in the post How Do You See the Enlightened? And another post that may be of use is Can a Fragmented Mind Know Compassion? I have not read [...]

]]> By: Albert | UrbanMonk dot Net http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-1028 Albert | UrbanMonk dot Net Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:46:36 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-1028 Hey Takuin, thanks heaps for the kind words. And that explanation - it hit me like a mini light switch. I have been noticing something strange recently (and I am trying to process it before I share it in my blog) - this could be what you're talking about. For instance, I have a couple of triggers that make me very frustrated. And recently one of these triggers happened - and I was more angry than I was before, than I should be. But the strangest thing was that, it just passed in a flash. It left me so much faster than it did before, and then there was no trace. I didn't stew about it or anything. It was just a flash, and then it was gone. I'm still going inside myself, trying to find out what that means, if that is good or bad (argh, duality!), but your comments might have explained it already. Hey Takuin, thanks heaps for the kind words. And that explanation – it hit me like a mini light switch. I have been noticing something strange recently (and I am trying to process it before I share it in my blog) – this could be what you’re talking about.

For instance, I have a couple of triggers that make me very frustrated. And recently one of these triggers happened – and I was more angry than I was before, than I should be. But the strangest thing was that, it just passed in a flash.

It left me so much faster than it did before, and then there was no trace. I didn’t stew about it or anything. It was just a flash, and then it was gone. I’m still going inside myself, trying to find out what that means, if that is good or bad (argh, duality!), but your comments might have explained it already.

]]> By: takuin http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-967 takuin Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:48:36 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-967 Hey Albert. Spot on, as always. I'll be adding your comment to the post fairly soon. Thanks for the comment! Hey Albert.

Spot on, as always. I’ll be adding your comment to the post fairly soon.

Thanks for the comment!

]]> By: takuin http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-966 takuin Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:47:07 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-966 Hi Nur. It is always nice to see you here. <blockquote>Further, can you explain your statement ‘am not interested in monuments. But I am interested in the people that build them’</blockquote> What I meant was, the constructs of thought. Not necessarily thought itself (as a movement), but rather, the tendency we have to take a certain group of thoughts (or a belief system, or whatever) and build what we believe are magnificent structures out of them. These "monuments" become more important to us than the beauty of natural expression. I am glad you are around to ask these questions. Otherwise, I would probably not clarify anything further. Hi Nur. It is always nice to see you here.

Further, can you explain your statement
‘am not interested in monuments. But I am interested in the people that build them’

What I meant was, the constructs of thought. Not necessarily thought itself (as a movement), but rather, the tendency we have to take a certain group of thoughts (or a belief system, or whatever) and build what we believe are magnificent structures out of them. These “monuments” become more important to us than the beauty of natural expression.

I am glad you are around to ask these questions. Otherwise, I would probably not clarify anything further.

]]> By: Albert | UrbanMonk dot Net http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-960 Albert | UrbanMonk dot Net Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:26:46 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-960 Nur, I am getting the impression that you expect pain to disappear instantly when accepted. With smaller pains, it does, and you have acknowledged that in your emails. With deeper pains, it takes a lot more time, and also you might have to do some exploring to get to the root of the problem. Sometimes the pain is dissipating, but it doesn't feel that way. For example, you have a 100 kilos of rice, and you're scooping it away with a cup. After 10 minutes of work, you're down to 99 kilos, but the person who's holding up the 99 kilos won't really feel the difference. But still there was a dropping of pain. Hope that helps. Nur, I am getting the impression that you expect pain to disappear instantly when accepted. With smaller pains, it does, and you have acknowledged that in your emails. With deeper pains, it takes a lot more time, and also you might have to do some exploring to get to the root of the problem. Sometimes the pain is dissipating, but it doesn’t feel that way. For example, you have a 100 kilos of rice, and you’re scooping it away with a cup. After 10 minutes of work, you’re down to 99 kilos, but the person who’s holding up the 99 kilos won’t really feel the difference. But still there was a dropping of pain. Hope that helps.

]]> By: Nur http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-959 Nur Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:21:26 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-959 When one sees the sorrow as sorrow only , the sorrow still remains . The pain doensn't dissipate when one looks at it without a belief system. Is enlightenment painlessness or acceptance of pain? Is it that when we see the pain as pain only , it dissappears. how can it? Which brings me to the point, often enlightenment is sought so the pain of our lives may vanish and one live in peace in bliss. But even that is a belief? What happens then, when we simply learn to be.? Is sorrow still painful? When one sees the sorrow as sorrow only , the sorrow still remains .
The pain doensn’t dissipate when one looks at it without a belief system.
Is enlightenment painlessness or acceptance of pain? Is it that when we see the pain as pain only , it dissappears. how can it?

Which brings me to the point, often enlightenment is sought so the pain of our lives may vanish and one live in peace in bliss. But even that is a belief?
What happens then, when we simply learn to be.? Is sorrow still painful?

]]> By: Nur http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-949 Nur Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:23:26 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-949 Very nice, Alan. Just thought i'd let you know!! Very nice, Alan. Just thought i’d let you know!!

]]> By: Alan http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-948 Alan Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:36:53 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-948 It is helpful to me to drop belief about belief. If I believe that there is any thing or person to be believed as ultimate truth then that experience is all there is. I will always be looking for belief in something that never existed. Nothing is real in itself to me because it is transient, even the appearance of a truly helpful enlightened one. There is nothing "out there" to be believed by me to be an enlightened monument that I can depend on to last forever in time and space. A person who lives in enlightenment won't tell me in any way "This is how you are supposed to be, see, think, feel or act in order to be enlightened like me." Enlightenment is everywhere in all shapes and forms. We feel the wind on us and see it move things and it tells us something about what we are. We see a rock and feel that rock and it does the same thing without making a personal statement beyond its isness and our isness. It invites us to "feel" the being that we are together. If an enlightened one is like this then I will listen while that one is there to move me. It is helpful to me to drop belief about belief. If I believe that there is any thing or person to be believed as ultimate truth then that experience is all there is. I will always be looking for belief in something that never existed. Nothing is real in itself to me because it is transient, even the appearance of a truly helpful enlightened one. There is nothing “out there” to be believed by me to be an enlightened monument that I can depend on to last forever in time and space. A person who lives in enlightenment won’t tell me in any way “This is how you are supposed to be, see, think, feel or act in order to be enlightened like me.” Enlightenment is everywhere in all shapes and forms. We feel the wind on us and see it move things and it tells us something about what we are. We see a rock and feel that rock and it does the same thing without making a personal statement beyond its isness and our isness. It invites us to “feel” the being that we are together. If an enlightened one is like this then I will listen while that one is there to move me.

]]> By: Nur http://www.takuin.com/how-do-you-see-the-enlightened/comment-page-1/#comment-941 Nur Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:31:46 +0000 http://www.takuin.com/2007/10/30/question-of-the-week-1029-1104/#comment-941 Hey. I don't know how to 'see' the enlightened. But, when in their presence, one feels the peace . The peace that comes from then being joyous with where they are. No, like you said, there can be no physical appearances that project enlightenment. A question from those of us still learning to deal with suffering and enlightenment seems far away. How does one drop beliefs about anything? Very difficult and when one does, what then? Then you just do stuff, because you're doing it? I don't know if I am making sense. Further, can you explain your statement 'am not interested in monuments. But I am interested in the people that build them' Hey.
I don’t know how to ‘see’ the enlightened. But, when in their presence, one feels the peace . The peace that comes from then being joyous with where they are. No, like you said, there can be no physical appearances that project enlightenment.
A question from those of us still learning to deal with suffering and enlightenment seems far away. How does one drop beliefs about anything?
Very difficult and when one does, what then? Then you just do stuff, because you’re doing it? I don’t know if I am making sense.
Further, can you explain your statement
‘am not interested in monuments. But I am interested in the people that build them’

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