November Project: Question #8
This question comes from Lee through email
Is there life after death?
Thanks for the question, Lee.
No.
OK, OK, put down the torches….we’ll go into this a bit. 
The better answer – well, not better, but perhaps the only answer – is, I don’t know. I never will. Neither will you. We know what we’ve been taught, and that is all.
Reincarnation, life after death, and all of the other things we have been told of the after life have been given to us, and adopted by us, for two main reasons: control and comfort. If we can be made to believe the stories we have been given, we are easier to control. And since we can’t fathom, or won’t fathom, the notion that this life may very well be all there is, we take comfort in knowing we’ll be taken care of later.
It is, “Be good now, or suffer later,” or “If you don’t get it right this time, you will have another chance,” and so on.
What we have been taught are the products of thinking. We give a description of something through thought, that is beyond thought. Death is the ending of thought. Not necessarily the ending of life, but of thought.
Thought is scared of the end, and thus, makes tales of another life or another something in an attempt to maintain its own continuity.
Try and see this within yourselves…if you can put aside the things you’ve been taught, and just see the functioning of thinking and how it moves, with its hopes for the future and a life without end. Somewhere, somehow, it must know that eventually its number will be up, but it does its damnedest to keep going.
Take a moment and look within yourself. Why do you want to go on after this life? Not because you believe you will, it is more than that. Why do you want to? I am not saying you should or should not. Just ask why. It seems no one bothers to ask.
I know what people say about this, and I know what they believe. But just because an idea is popular, or because you believe it, doesn’t make it true. And I am not trying to say “Believe me!! Believe me!!” because all I can really say is, “I DON’T KNOW.” And I am more than fine with that. It just gives one a reason to never waste one’s time. Ever.
You might ask, “Isn’t there a possibility that what we’ve been taught will turn out to be true?” The same possibility exists of there being an alternate universe where Takuin has super powers and is leader of the X-Men.
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All of the above is not meant to convince someone there is nothing after death. It was merely an exploration. True, we should be suspicious of the stories we’ve been given. But we should be more suspicious of what we do with those stories in our own minds.
From my perspective, this question of life after death is at the heart of the spiritual search. Looking for something that is permanent I think perhaps motivates the seeker. I have dabbled with looking into stories of NDE’s, which are very convincing, however examining them closely they seem to be stories based on an ‘I’ that is made of thought. These experiences may very well happen after death but who exactly is experiencing this? As an individual, I certainly do not remember anything before birth, and only have bits of memory before I was about three; of course this is all based on thought and interpreting my supposed past.
So I think that Takuin hit the crux of the matter with : “What we have been taught are the products of thinking. We give a description of something through thought, that is beyond thought. Death is the ending of thought. Not necessarily the ending of life, but of thought. Thought is scared of the end, and thus, makes tales of another life or another something in an attempt to maintain its own continuity.”
Thought is so afraid of ending…are you really your thoughts?
Again, I agree with the attitude of “I don’t know!” but for this supposed individual made up of thoughts who has fears and hopes…it would be nice to know.
I guess some believe they have had experiences where time or space has been transcended which has implications for the answer to this question.
Thanks, Evan.
I have heard some of these stories as well. I do not doubt something has been experienced. I just question the explanations and interpretations. Not for them, you know. I mean, people believe what they want to believe, and I am not here to tell them they are wrong. I just can’t find the connections to their conclusions, if that makes any sense. They might say that this experience equals that, but I have a difficult time seeing it, as the links are tenebrous at best.
But these are my own explorations. And I appreciate the stories others tell, as it gives me something I can play with and explore in my own limited way.
Haha, I love honest answer! Sweet!
Thanks, Rizal! Long time no see.
(laughs) Well, Takuin, you know where I am on this.
I agree with your opening comment. And to say you don’t know is honest. But to then suggest it can’t be known and no one will ever know is just belief, no more or less than those who believe in an afterlife. I quite appreciate there are many who make a big story about this and there is a lot of nonsense. It’s also a very personal experience, so those with the experience may not differentiate between what arises and what they’ve brought to it. But there is ample evidence of people having such experiences and assisting people making the transition. I also know many who have experienced past lifetimes, myself included. Lots of consistency, lots of verifiable information, and some useful insights. Certainly not the goal though.
I got to be the contrarian again!
Thanks, Davidya.
As far as an after-life is concerned, how am I to find out? I cannot find a way to touch it, as far as having an understanding of what will happen after I am gone. So what will I do?
The only evidence I have seen consists of people telling me it is real. And we both know that is not evidence. And then there are the experts telling us it is real because of X, Y, and Z, but we cannot verify it, as X, Y, and Z usually consists of the experts interpretation of some sort of data. (But you and I both know my experience here is limited.)
It is not that I want to promote some kind of anti-after-life mindset, or anything. I want it to be real. I would love for all the stories of the after-life to be true. But I have seen no evidence that it is so.
However, when it comes to this sort of information, I defer to you, because you are the expert. I mean that. This is a world that you know in an intimate way, and you have spent a great deal of effort, and put a lot of love into researching and reading on the subject. Not to mention all the people you’ve known and talked to, and possibly even your own experiences. And I want to know what you know.
That doesn’t mean I’ll believe you because you are the expert, as your interpretations of events might be crazier than anything I have ever said.
But you are the best place to start, haha.
So……where do I begin? I am going into this not knowing, but I am more than willing to find out. Please help me begin, my friend.
(laughs) well, Takuin – it is a big subject. Where does one begin? And what can I say in a comment?
Perhaps the best way to answer your question would be to describe how it unfolded for me. I’ve written a new blog post accordingly.
http://in2deep.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/life-continues/
Hopefully, that will shed some light on it for you. I doubt it will incline you to look more though.
Thanks, Davidya. I’ve been ill, and it is taking a good deal of energy to answer the comments and post everyday, but I will get over to your house and comment before too long.
I am not trying to prove anything, or on one of those idiotic quests to make one side look bad. Not saying you are thinking that at all, by the way. But you know the difficulties of my functioning as well as anyone else, haha.
I actually have my own story on a near death experience, and I am fairly certain I have never written about it here. I may do that in the next week or two. Although I went through a physically traumatic experience, and I did see things I could not and cannot explain, no part of me ever thought it to be anything more than the flailing of a dying brain and body. I may write about that soon…
No rush. Take care of yourself. I’ve really enjoyed our conversations as we come from opposite ends of the spectrum in some ways. What you’ve shared has obliged me to really look at what is ‘going on’ carefully.
I’d enjoy hearing your experience if and when you’re prepared to share. One can certainly see experiences as an effect of the physiology. Jill Bolte Taylor’s understanding of her stroke well illustrates this. But what if consciousness is not just a side effect but preexists the body. The body can certainly have an effect on how we experience through it but it shifts the equation…
Thanks, Davidya.
I’m not sure what significance my experience might have had in those unseen sort of ways, if you know what I mean. Although it did have a huge impact on my life, physically. I had just turned 18 and was in a very bad car accident. But I WILL write about that sometime before the end of the month, so I will save it until then.
“It just gives one a reason to never waste one’s time.”
EXACTLY! If you can drop the fairy tale, life becomes so much richer, precisely because you realize that THIS is IT! THIS is all there ever will be, so it’s best to soak it all up while “you” are here.
Good one, Takuin.
Thanks, Mike.
I’ve heard people say – and you’ve probably heard this, too – that if there is nothing after this life, what is the point of living at all? I could never understand that way of thinking.
That there may be nothing beyond this life, IS the point of living; to live fully while we have the chance.
I don’t know so I can’t discount what others have said. There may be truth to it or there may be nothing to it.
Thanks, A.
It is that openness that may serve you better than anything else.
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