From Davidya:

Actual awakening is a permanent shift, an apparent change in who we are. Rather than being a person experiencing silence, we are silence experiencing a person.

You might also want to consider, if this does indeed happen to ‘Diane,’ there will be absolutely nothing you can do about it. It will become apparent that nothing you did do might have made a difference. There will simply be no real way of knowing.

You might be able to theorize, or even remember what might have happened to you in sequential order, but it will not hold any weight anymore. Perhaps that is due to the disappearance of the person trying to find enlightenment, which is also the disappearance of that person’s desires as well.

Upon hearing that, you might think, “That sounds great!” But the person thinking that will not survive, either.

But don’t take my word for it…..

When we are speaking of experience here, it is not the same as familiarity or memory. It is something different from that, as Davidya pointed out on the reply above.

And the fact that when enlightment/spirituality becomes popular like the story I used does it become anything less than what it is at the moment?

It is true, it can only be what it is, but the only thing you can be aware of is how you are functioning from moment to moment. Do not delegate your ‘awareness’ or ‘perception’ to what you’ve been taught by another, because it is not true seeing in the way we are talking about.

Someone comes along and says, “Enlightenment is like this or that.” Now they may turn out to be correct, but you’ll never know if you take their word for it. Most people will hear a pleasing phrase, accept it to be true, then try to fold and contort their lives to fit in with the phrase. But they have nothing but a new attachment, a new plaything.

Is all story telling/remembering something that hurts and harms spiritual seekers?

If there is something harmful there, you will most likely find it in the seeking, and not in the remembering.

Actual awakening is a permanent shift, an apparent change in who we are. Rather than being a person experiencing silence, we are silence experiencing a person.

People will describe this in different ways as you can only describe the experience, not the being.

Now, even after the switch, the experience (again) can vary. Part is still an experience. Often, additional clearing is required. And there can be much deepening and expansion as we settle deeper into the foundations.

On the question – what is not a divine experience? Nothing, if that is your experience. But if it’s a story or concept that all experiences are divine, is that an illusion or divinity? That’s something only you can answer.

Why is awakening something that fluctuates so then or does it?

If you are awakened? Why then is “awekening” so easily lost? Like all experiences it is what it is…can not really be changed…moments can change that is all??? The one who experienced it still has the body of experience right?

Gosh hope Takuin can give his insights…on both comments…still!

Thanks, Davina!

What is not a divine experience?

If I may, I would say experiences are not a hindrances to awakening. As was observed on the other post by Tom and myself, experiencing continues. The ‘hindrance’ is in our relationship to the experience. Is it held or rejected? Or is simply experienced, as in your example?

It is the holding and pushing away that supports the construct or illusion. And even the Aha’s and “spiritual experiences” can be co-opted by that story. When we let go or allow it to be as it is, then the relationship changes. The story ends.

Familiarity can include more “hooks”. For example, stepping out of the family dynamics can be one of the most potent. Does the awakening last even when you visit the parents? (laughs)

I’m afraid I don’t understand the meaning of your example…could you please go into it a bit further?

Thanks a lot…

A small boy is out riding his bike he falls and a stranger stops and helps him up and his bike has tweaked frame. The stranger puts the bike right and after he is recovered enough to ride again he gets back on his bike. The stranger is thanked by the boy and the man smiles and so too does the boy and they part ways.