Don’t say you are ‘All One.’ That is an incredibly powerful statement. And as we go into this step by step we can see your confusion. So is the fact your confusion, or your idea of being All One? If you are All One, you would have no questions to the contrary. You would not ask a thing. So please, let’s not cover up the fact of your confusion with your idea of wholeness.
We begin with what we have. There is no shame in being confused.
{ 17 comments }
Great point and very succinctly expressed. The biggest obstacle to getting into the flow of awakening is accumulated concepts, and this often shows up as the “beautiful” ideas we create about awakening, oneness, bliss and all the rest.
It is a problem. The listener imagines the state described by the speaker (we can assume they are not really listening, but building images). Then, when left to their own devices, they look for the state they have imagined – the built up image – which is not the actual thing.
I do not read anything on non-duality or spirituality. Not that it is the right thing to do, mind you. But it is clear that all of this ‘work’ – for lack of a better word – must be dug out with our own shovels in our own yard. It might be nice to listen to certain gurus, or read popular books on the subject, but what can be done with those writings or dialogues?
What can one do with the re-gifted answer?
A gentle mind, an unoccupied mind, is needed, and we all have this capability. It is not a magical power reserved for only a few. If we approach the subject without the desire for gain, there is real hope to break through. Something beautiful may arise if only we could keep our dirty hands out of the matter. Inquiry is important here because not desiring for gain can be the strongest of desires. And everything we think must be subject to interrogation!
It is forever what I consider in writing about the process. On the one hand, the process leads to ideas about it and can become barriers to it.
On the other hand, for those on the journey (stepping
it can be very valuable to have a sense of context and framework. When the always surprising shifts in being happen, there is less concern or confusion and it can be validated. It also helps avoid the traps and side-roads that can occur.
There are a number of people who have described not having context or refusing to acknowledge what was taking place and essentially getting in the way of it or even fighting it tooth and nail.
It is curious this occurs, but then all things are here.
Perhaps it is enough to just point it out or to point to that tendency (building the image of liberation). It is astonishing how many seekers do not see it or refuse to acknowledge it. “Such things are for the lesser seeker.”
Right.
Yes, there may be the concepts of it. Then some experiences of it. Then the being itself. But even in the being, there are layers to it. Layers of degree of oneness beyond anything we may conceive or expect.
What surprises is that there is no end to oneness. It’s deepening has no bottom.
Of course, concepts and experience cannot touch the actual thing, which we have talked on before. But even saying ‘actual thing’ is not quite right either.
I have difficulty with the words levels or layers. You have heard me say this before. But I want to come closer to your meaning so that it might be understood. When you use those words, what do you mean? Could you put it in other words?
I get the impression when you use those words, you do not necessarily mean to say ‘steps’ or things to do like a laundry list of actions, correct? And you probably do not mean to say someone is more enlightened than someone else. “Their level is higher than yours,” and that sort of nonsense.
You know there is difficulty in this for Takuin because it did not seem to unfold in that way here. So in some way it is like a foreign concept. But instead of just dismissing it, I want to understand your meaning of the thing.
It may be a simple matter of learning your definition of those words, or at least the essence of their meaning.
The way I have used the word is something to be overcome by the doer. For example, the doer says something like, “I am here, but my guru is there, and in order to be like her/him I have to do this this and this. Then, after fighting and pushing and effort-ing, I will be at a higher level than I am now.” So using this definition of the thing, we can see the obvious separation. But I think you are probably not using it in that same way.
As always, thank you Davidya.
hmm, yes it’s true. There are not really layers or steps. More there are layers of ways to experience it. It kind of like you start very close then step backwards more and more. What you are looking at does not change but gradually, the vantage expands. At certain points, there is a larger shift in perspective that changes the sense of who you are and that in turn affects how you see it and what the “rules” appear to be.
Often, the only way to describe it is the subjective experience of it. Without that, little can be said.
Yeah, I know. You took the easy way “out”. (laughs) One giant step instead of many little ones. Fell off a cliff instead of taking the stairs. Nirmala has a recent video on sudden vs gradual awakening. He made a reference about ‘premature’ for the first. (laughs)
A friend of mine stepped into unity in 2 stages over 3 days on his first retreat. It was startling to see. Took him a bit of time to integrate it but he now does satsangs. Amazing how different the apparent journey can be for different people.
That is a good example of how it changes. There seems to be a doer that is working to overcome illusions. Then one discovers the doer IS the illusion. (laughs) Then there is a separate observer. Then an unseparate observer, then no observer, simply an observing. And so it goes. Step, step, stepless step… (laughs)
Haha, the easy way out. It is certainly not my fault!
But seriously, I cannot explain it, and I generally do not try to do so. I have traced it back in my own mind as best I could, and cannot find any cause. There is nothing there that says, “Because of this, that happened.”
I can lay out a list of things I did on that day, even getting close to the actual thoughts in my head, but it is of no use. Some time ago I abandoned the idea of finding significance hidden within the actions on that day.
It was a day just like any other, with common thinking and common actions. But I wonder why sometimes.
I also find it strange that it may come in one fail swoop, and with others it seems they have to take steps forward and steps back constantly. I suspect it is because they have not really questioned the questioner. Or they might question belief, but never the believer. There is always that ‘person’ with dirty little hands messing it all up. It is still a very strong self-centered activity.
I may do a thorough investigation of this at some point on the future.
Yes, you won’t find the answer to that in the mind or events of the day. What awakes is beyond all that. Some refer to the term grace as in grace of God or grace of the guru. (or grace of Self) But essentially it is Self waking to itself, through the vehicle of the person. It is not the person that wakes nor is it really about what they’ve done or not done.
Some suggest the differences in apparent process are due to what we bring into this life – karmas and degree of spiritual development. This is true on it’s own level, but more deeply, I’ve found that it’s about Self wishing to experience itself fully and thus experience all possible variations. Thus we have every possible path.
Even more deeply, there is no time so everything has already happened. We are simply experiencing the details of it so the perception of Self of itself becomes more refined.
This points to how truth is relative to state of consciousness. States change, and thus truth changes. While you can go deeply into the mechanics of it and find the truth of it, you will find that truth will fall away to an even deeper one. (laughs)
It’s also worth noting that as there is no me, everything that happens is about we, about the whole. If you look at it from that context, things can make a little more sense.
Of course, I just looped back on your original post. (laughs)
What I would say is don’t pretend it’s wholeness or oneness if that is not your reality but if you can remember there are other perspectives, you’ll perhaps take your beliefs about what is a little less seriously.
Hey Takuin and Davidya
I believe I am the confused that Takuin talks about in the post.
I have felt a profound sense of Oneness and Unity for a period of few months and then it fell away . So I dunno what it was , only that it was and now it isn’t .
Maybe because I stopped Yoga and meditation.
Anyway. Both your points of view are very interesting. You’ll are trying to describe the process of the Undescrible . Does the path to Oneness , need to be described . It just happens. I doubt anyone knows ‘how’. Aren’t we trying to quantify the path, which isn’t possible ?
I most certainly don’t have any answers but curiousity is a good thing. As long as one doens’t get caught up in definations no?
But both of you’ll, Takuin and Davidya.You” ll share your experiences with us. What would you advise the novice. If you had to say , ‘do this?’ what would you’ll say. Just curious
Uzma
This post is part of a response during a recent conversation. The person I spoke with was complaining about the stresses of his life, the severity of his position socially, politically and so on, but in the next sentence he would say, “I know I am supposed to be All One. I should be All One so that is what I will pursue. I AM All One.” The excerpt I posted was from later in our conversation, which lasted about 45 minutes.
He would not, for whatever reason, explore the reality of his situation. All he was interested in was finding what he thought was better. I could not support him in that endeavor.
Besides, what would I say to him?
As far as your question on what to do:
Start with what you have, and not with what you think is better.
The hope is to eliminate any movement away from what you are. I cannot tell you HOW to do this, but you will find out through the doing.
It might be interesting for you to use your ‘desert island’ self. I mentioned this to Eric a few posts ago:
If you only have you to work with, what would you do?
Yeah, the teacher can teach but will the student hear? Resistance to what is is deeply ingrained. For many it’s not even seen.
First step is to see it.
Almost as difficult is to let it be as it is.
What will he do first? See what the foods like
Isn’t that the truth…sometimes I think this resistance has become an action that needs no stimulus for them. Like a strange kind of ‘natural’ activity.
Hi Uzma
Adyashanti refers to this as non-abiding awakening. I’ve had same. It can rather make life a disappointment for a time.
Some suggest the key is the further refinement of the nervous system so it can support the experience. Thus, more meditation, etc. But it’s a lot to do with timing. When it best suits the whole.
I also found that the life experiences between that and when it ‘stuck’ contributed greatly to what followed, but in completely unobvious ways. We tend to think of life and spiritual practice as separate things but all of life is part of that process.
One can know how but the trick is that that requires an overview. In other words, to see the process we have to be able to step back from it. As we are in the process, we can’t. Thus we see the process in retrospect. But then, there is a further process we are not seeing. And even if we do have a good idea of it, it is still a surprise. Surprise is actually a good sign it’s real (laughs)
Yes, the danger is being caught by concepts we cannot understand until it is our experience. If we can hold them loosely, as ideas, they can be useful. But this is not the tendency of the mind. It wants to make concepts it can turn into beliefs to program itself.
Knowing you don’t have answers is considered by many to be the right place to be. Then you can be with what is.
Undescribable? Not really, but how can one communicate what has not been experienced? There’s the role of the teacher. When they can speak from silence, they can communicate what words fail to. Words are used but what is communicated is being. If the student can listen from silence.
Advice? Do what you love, what makes you happy. Follow your bliss. If a spiritual practice is part of that, it will probably make your journey easier. My own practice faltered for a short bit but the fundamentals have lasted throughout. Although that wasn’t always clear. Broadly, I’ve noticed those with a spiritual practice tend to move ahead more smoothly. We may move fast or slow, but how smooth a path do we take?
It is interesting to consider. We could say Takuin had no process so there is nothing to be seen. Yet if our whole life is the process, then Takuin’s life was the process. If this is not seen, it indicates he is still in it. (laughs)
I suppose it is life happening.
{ 2 trackbacks }
Comments on this entry are closed.