There are no other people. No one to bring you hurt, no one to leave a scar. If one hurts you with a word, where does it leave its mark? And who is responsible for the so-called pain?
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Where does it hurt?
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It depends on how it is held or not held, how perceived.
It can be like a line on rock, a line on sand, a line on water, a line on air, or no line at all…
Matthew 18:3, “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”
Denying is the wrong way to cover up your wounds because you dont want to see and feel it. Open up is the only way not denying it. Trust your feelings.
Taikun your asking tells you the answer, there is pain, you can deny it for hundred years, if you dont look at it and see it, it will stay there.
Matthew 18:3, “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”
Davidya,
So it depends upon how it is perceived. Would you say this perception itself is responsible for the hurt, and not necessarily the words put before us?
iamasimpelman,
Matthew is not here, and since we cannot send him an e-mail to find out exactly what he meant, we can leave him out of this.
Thinking on your words, I went into this very carefully and could find no denial, or a need for anything to be different from what it is. So it seems to be a misunderstanding between us. I am sure it is my own deficiency, and not yours.
I assume you are referring to this sentence:
In it, I am not trying to imply that there are no other human beings or other living organisms on this beautiful world. Rather, I was referring to our ideas of us and them that eternally keep us apart and sustain all of our inner and outer conflict.
This post (hopefully) points to the question, “Who, exactly, is being hurt?” I would never deny that this goes on in the world. It is simple to observe. But that is where we finish, when actually, that is where everything begins.
There may be harsh words thrown around, but why do they hurt us? Who is the victim being threatened or humiliated? Why do these words leave their mark? These questions may be important for some of us.
iamasimpelman,
I forgot to mention, you are very correct when you speak of denial being a block, or really, a killer, to true expression.
This is a point that so many people fail to understand, or perhaps, they actively try to avoid opening up.
Why do bullets hurt us? Be happy that words hurt us it is the guarantee that we are able to be as complex as we are, and doing the thinking we do here. You get nothing for free you always pay somehow. So the human being with its complexity pays with vulnerability.
And to Matthew, we dont even have to know him it to enjoy and rethink this sentence which is well known in the christian culture in western europe.
iamasimpelman,
On your first paragraph, that is an interesting belief you have. Or rather, set of beliefs. And that is not good or bad, nor is it anything to feel bad about. I do not see the connection with vulnerability and complexity, however.
Matthew IS interesting, and I realize it is popular in Christian culture, as well as elsewhere. But I find that particular quote confusing. It raises many questions.
I won’t say it is unsettling, but it does sound like a threat. “Unless you change into something else, you will not get what I believe you need. And if you do not get what I believe you need, you will suffer for it forever.”
This is also a common problem with the spiritual seeker. They are told, or they decide, that enlightenment is something they have to attain, but in order to get it they have to change into something other than what they are. “In order to be enlightened I have to suffer, sell my possessions, abstain from this or that or whatever, because that is what those people do.”
I do not really think Matthew meant it in this way, but I cannot say for sure either way. I would like to read other translations of this same line in order to understand it a bit better.
when I unterstand what a wounderful tool our brain is I was impressed. But this tool is such an hig-end product that it is very sensitive and vulnerable and so we have to live with these consequences on the other hand. And I think this is not some thought this is something we experience ourself very often.
What i do not unterstand is that you reduce my words to a believe and your words what are they.
“On your first paragraph, that is an interesting belief you have. Or rather, set of beliefs. And that is not good or bad, nor is it anything to feel bad about. I do not see the connection with vulnerability and complexity, however.”
to quote you.
Interesting beliefs, why dont you say I dont unterstand your nonsens and it does not fit in.
The connection between vulnerability and complexity. Take a hammer and a Videocamera and you will see which of these tools is vulnerable when both of them
felt on the floor.
I am sorry but I think there is to much dening and a very strong belief-system here
which does not allow something of the course of the two main charcters Takuin Davidya, I will not disturb your personal playfield anymore and so this was my last comment.
Who am I to call anything you believe nonsense? That would be unfair of me to say to you. And if I am to say it doesn’t fit in, that would mean I believe you are in some way wrong. I do not believe any of that. I can’t say that you are wrong here.
If you want to go into whether these things are belief or not, then keep posting comments. We can go into this as much as you would like. I’ll never deny you a place here, and I’ll seriously consider whatever it is you say.
I can’t say you are wrong about any of this. I don’t believe it has to be one way or the other.
I am sorry if you are disappointed in something here, but I won’t try to keep you from leaving.
thanks.
bye.
iamasimpelman
Takuin
Yes, it is our perception, and then how we choose to respond to it. Perception and response. Do we take it personally or just see it as it is? Words are simply symbols of someones concepts or beliefs. Its amazing how we communicate at all, given how differently people will relate to different beliefs and ideas.
That disconnect is well illustrated in the discussion above. 2 distinct positions that did not meet and the very point was missed.
It reminds me of the idea of seeing the eyes that look. We do not see who is seeing because we are that. (although there’s nothing to see anyway (laughs)) It is the same way with beliefs. When they are heald close, when we identify with them, they become part of what we see ourselvs to be. Thus a contrary position is seen/perceived as a threat to our identity. Something that must be fought. We don’t see this because we are it. Or at least, this is what the mind holds. Being able to see it is just a belief, and as you exemplify, that we can choose to step out of belief, is the doorway to freedom.
It is the end of suffering, so an important discussion, even if someone may see themselves as offended in the process.
Curious, is it not, how Hurt is sometimes the doorway to unhurt, how suffering can lead us out of itself. Sometimes, it is not until we see it that we can let it go.
“There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so.” I believe that’s from Shakespeare. An important lesson in A Course In Miracles is that nothing has any meaning of itself other that what we give it. I take that to include words and ideas as well as the physical nature of the universe. I wish I was as eloquent as folks like you and Davidya for there are times when it seems my point is just not getting across. But ya know what? It doesn’t matter.
What I or anyone else says or thinks can never change or even truly apprehend truth. One thing that keeps me coming back to read your posts is that no matter how much you question my conclusions, perceptions and beliefs, you always stress looking for myself, for that is where reality will be found. Damn, what I really want is for someone to just hand me the answers! (laughs).
These days if I am hurt I take that as an opportunity to see why I allowed my self to be hurt. What lesson do I need to learn? The cure for the pain is found in the pain. Very trite, but I think it’s true. As for the original statement that there are no other people all I can say is that I subscribe to the concept of non duality and there being only one Consciousness, Awareness and that that Consciousness is causative; a quantum intentionality if you will, the function of which is to experience separation even if it is only an illusion. But what the hell do I know? These are just beliefs and as such meaningless. ( I know, you’re gonna tell me the meaninglessness is a belief also, and I should look and see for myself if they are or not.)
I could go on and on but for the fact that I don’t know what I’m talkin’ about, but here’s one more belief; angels can fly because they take themselves so lightly. Namaste, folks.
Hi Eric
Thanks, but clearly, our points often don’t get across. Hence my facetious blog name. But I notice you’re writing Takuin’s answers too, so someone has gotten the idea. (laughs) As for someone to hand you the answers, it’s not needed. As soon as you stop looking, you will find them. Simply because they are not somewhere else, outside of you.
Nice comment about angels. I look at it a little differently. Land based creatures develop a kind of flat-land thing with concepts like up and down. In the sea, you are in a more 3D space. If you want to learn to “drive” properly in the ocean, you have to get rid of those ideas. Ground and sky are not reliable reference points. Most of the worlds life lives there. Angels are more like that – no boundaries like up and down or can’t or solid. Indeed, almost no boundaries at all. But they lack something we have – the ability to experience contrasts clearly enough to step out of them.
Eric,
Is it possible to have a non-dual concept?
There you go…that is a good place to begin.
Meaninglessness is not necessarily a belief. If you say, “Belief is meaningless,” and you BELIEVE IT, then you might be in trouble. But we can use that word to point out a kind of nothingness of the organism.
If someone says belief is meaningless, you have to ask, What does that mean? Meaningless in what way? (You are not looking for one side to prevail over the other. You just want to be clear as to the meaning of the speaker. Then you can move from there.)
Many people say this or that is useless or meaningless only because someone told them so. But how useful or meaningful is that?
It is interesting…a seeker does not go to a guru for answers. They only wish to find an authority that will validate the answers they already have. If the guru speaks in a way that is contrary to the seeker’s belief (or answer), then he is crazy. But if the guru matches the answer already held, the seeker becomes the follower.
If one discounts their own answers, the guru becomes meaningless. But that is not because there is something wrong with the guru.
Ask yourself, are you a question, searching for an answer? Or are you already the answer, seeking the right question?
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