Solidifying the Questioner

This is from a current discussion with James taking place on the post, Quick Thoughts – Levels of Enlightenment. That post is rather old and I thought the readers would miss out on the discussion which has been interesting so far, so here it is. (Also, there were no comments on that post until James came along, so thanks James!) We'll keep it going in this post and hopefully get more people involved in the process. So take a moment to read the original post - which is very short - then come back and join the discussion. I've added the comments from that post below, in their entirety.

Dark City

James:

Therefore theoretically your saying if one has 100% brain capacity / capability then he or she, It for that matter has supreme existence that is fully awakened / enlightened beyond its conception (pre or unexistent) ie. and animal does not know otherwise thereofore is complete and enlightened in its own state of understanding, If so you beleive such riddles of the mind, such tangents of a poetic philosopher, you lack the real insight to carry over the neccesary guidelines that create a “awakened being”. Such is, a 100% mental capacity has never been recorded in (known science) therefore your “liberal way of thinking” is and I know, theoretical. For one to transcend their own mind to point of disconnection with time space, is in itself enlightenment, is in itself emptyness of idealistic or realistic approaches you here are trying to explain. Such is the idea of transcending ones self, You transcend time and space. And YES transcending time and space is done in TIME AND SPACE, YES is done in levels. Thank you. (one who goes from 2.5-5% Global brain Capability, to a wopping 100%) would 1, die, hemmorage ext.. or 2 go completly insane on attempting to reach that higher level of Capability. Ie. you get the lunatics and people in asylums who are connected higher then “sane people” who cannot reach the epitimy of their self control, and self awakenment, with the capacity their conciousness has reached. Ie, levels of different parts of ones mind, and ones time space.

Takuin:

Thanks, James.

Takuin doesn't know anything about 100% brain capacity, supreme existence, pre or un-existent this or that, nor does it have any belief about what one should or should not be. It is all far more simple than any of that.

Do guidelines lead to an awakening? Or does anything, for that matter? Not what should or should not lead one there, because that is nonsense.

Such is, a 100% mental capacity has never been recorded in (known science) therefore your “liberal way of thinking” is and I know, theoretical.

Again, I am not sure what is this 100% capacity you speak of. This is your belief, not Takuin's. Perhaps it is this: I have said or written something, and you have translated that to mean '100% Capacity,' but your own idea of awakening has nothing to do with brain capacity, so you view my words as a liberal way of thinking (and I am not even sure what that means).

Such is the idea of transcending ones self, You transcend time and space. And YES transcending time and space is done in TIME AND SPACE, YES is done in levels. Thank you.

I won't argue with you. If this is your belief, this is your belief. If you think it takes time, if you think there are levels, then that is that. I won't try to deny you anything you believe to be true.

(one who goes from 2.5-5% Global brain Capability, to a wopping 100%) would 1, die, hemmorage ext.. or 2 go completly insane on attempting to reach that higher level of Capability.

Again, I do not know what you are referring to with these percentages of brain capacity. It is all very simple, so let's not make it complicated.

The only level is wherever you happen to be. Anything else is your thought about what came before, or whatever you hope will come next. The only thing we can really ever be aware of is how we are functioning from moment to moment. Everything else is our story about this or that.

James:

Certainly, you have a way of putting things into perspective. This is the point i make that our awakenings happen in the point of perspective. Where we understand ourselves to be. Though where we are at any given moment may or may not be a matter of our own pure indulgence. I mean 100% brain capacity in the fact that most humans will only use a certain amount of their brain function. When enlightenment in a Liberal way of thinking, means using and being certain of using 100% of your known capability in the ways or (guidelines) that are made out to help and heal and aid in other peoples paths to their own enlightenment. In this we are all contentiously connected and continuously in a state of “situational momentary understanding” of one another and of ourselves. In this there is much indifference, much tribulation in all things that we are. We see and feel the levels of others, their feelings, their thoughts, their momentary purpose, in this we attempt to free them from such a grasp. Though as you would like to beleive, if we are in this constant state of “now” that, space and time forfeits to us, than are we not in a constant state of our own upheaval, both in the whole, and in ourselves.

Takuin:

James,

Thanks for your replies.

This is the point i make that our awakenings happen in the point of perspective. Where we understand ourselves to be.

This may be true. But we must be careful of the perspective. Is it the perspective of the person hoping to be free? Or the person that may think, "Yes, I am finally getting somewhere!" In this perspective we are seeing the separation of the person without, hoping to someday be within.

I am not saying these perspectives are wrong, or anything like that. If this is what arises, if this is what is there, then this is where we start. But the possibility of 'perspectives' being a trick of the person hoping to be free must also be explored. It could be nothing more than one hoping to free oneself of the self through activity of the self.

This is similar to what you mentioned above when you wrote:

And YES transcending time and space is done in TIME AND SPACE, YES is done in levels. Thank you.

One hopes to transcend the object by using that same object as a means of escape. One cannot go beyond time and space using time and space. Transcendence implies life beyond the touch of the object, whatever that object might be.

But please do not take my word for it! It is not that we say, "Well, Takuin is right! Looks like it is time to do a different thing." That would be awful. We must question the subtleties as well as what seems to be obvious.

It is not that the activity is bad - the activity meaning the search, or the self hoping to go higher, and so on. It is just superficial. The object of the search is not important; it is the search itself one must see.

We don't try to understand the search for enlightenment, the search for happiness, the search for love, the search for whiter teeth, or whatever it might be; we look at the process that allows the search to happen in the first place.

So for example, in the quest for love, we look at the quest-er questing for love, and not at what we believe love to be. But this seems to be difficult for many to do.

This search is viewed from the perspective of the person looking for it. And that perspective includes the beliefs, the prejudices, and whatever else the self brings to the table. But what one carries with them is insignificant to this end.

Though where we are at any given moment may or may not be a matter of our own pure indulgence.

It may very well be. And if that is what is there, that is where we begin. We can only investigate what we have, and not what we hope to have or what we believe we should have.

Someone once asked me, "Well what if what we have is the hope to be something else?" If that is what you have, that is where you begin. But you'll never see through it if the person 'seeing' it is the person still hoping to have something else.

I mean 100% brain capacity in the fact that most humans will only use a certain amount of their brain function. When enlightenment in a Liberal way of thinking, means using and being certain of using 100% of your known capability in the ways or (guidelines) that are made out to help and heal and aid in other peoples paths to their own enlightenment.

How much of our brain is 'used' is not important for this. One cannot be certain of how much of our brains are used at any given time. Others will try to figure this out, and they will most likely tell us, but in what way is it significant?

Our brains operate the way they operate at any given time. It may seem insufficient at times or more than efficient at other times, but only through comparison to some other time or to some other brain. This just gets in the way.

It is not the brain that gets in the way of one's freedom. It very well may be the path one has chosen for themselves.

Though as you would like to beleive, if we are in this constant state of “now” that, space and time forfeits to us, than are we not in a constant state of our own upheaval, both in the whole, and in ourselves.

You have pointed out something important; the difficulty of the searcher. They hope for a constant state, or something that will bring greater and greater pleasure over time. But this implies 'enlightenment' is something unchanging, something solid that can be held onto in place of pain. A conclusion, or a finished product, if I can use that phrase.

Perhaps this is what makes it enticing for so many; if it is solid and you can plan for it, then you can force your way into it.

But let's not complicate the matter; the reality of the thing is more simple than all of that.


Thanks again, James, for your participation and interesting commentary so far. Please feel free to add more below in the comments. All others are welcome, as well.