This post is a response to questions and statements posed to Takuin by Shinai, on the post A Question for my Peers... Thank you very much Shinai, for taking the time to add to the conversation on that post. The comment, and my response, follow below.
I’m coming into this conversation very late. My response is to the original post/question by Takuin.
The question about what’s beneficial to humanity only has meaning within the context of the dream of self, which is, by definition, not real. Any story generated to explain dualities of cause and effect or beneficial versus harmful (etc.) are meaningless. And yet sometimes stories are generated. Who is there to have an opinion on the matter? No one. And yet opinions seem to happen sometimes. Curious.
From outside the dream, your question is meaningless. There is no such thing as “beneficial” or “harmful”. There is no cause and effect. There is only what is. “Our” ideas about it are irrelevant. “We” are not even real. If “we” aren’t real, how can “our” ideas have any validity at all?
In response to the post above me, your response to Sass, if there are no separate individuals, how can we assign fault to them? Fault can only exist in a dualistic framework.
Cheers and namaste.
Thank you, Shinai.
The purpose of the question was to generate an interaction between writers, speakers, bloggers, and so on, of spiritual matters. Whether or not the question is meaningless is also meaningless, as each person will go into these things in their own way.
I didn't ask the question with any hidden agenda or belief. It wasn't, "In what way is this helpful to humanity?" because I believe it is this way or that way, and I want to see how you come up against my belief. It is just the question. Now there may be certain things implicit in the question, but these things come out during the exploration and can be taken as they arise.
Looking back on this post, I am very happy, not only with the responses, but also that so many people took it seriously and had a genuine interest in seeing this thing for themselves.
There is no such thing as “beneficial” or “harmful”. There is no cause and effect. There is only what is.
There is NO What Is. Even that is too much.
We might say it is All One, or it is only What Is, or a million other things, but to the dreamer it is only a supposition. They begin the search based on an idea of a tangible state that can be acquired. So even though we might say it IS, the dreamer approaches the thing by building a different dream. Then the dreamer goes off, looking for the thing they imagine to be true, but their journey cannot touch that which is immeasurable (if I can say it that way).
In the liberated mind (if that is the right phrase), there is no question or statement of What Is. The idea of What Is only arises from the dreamer; the one searching for it.
“We” are not even real. If “we” aren’t real, how can “our” ideas have any validity at all?
They do not have any meaning, as far as what we are discussing here. All of the products of thought are in a constant state of decay. Thought itself is decay. It has no life in the sense of a living organism; a flower, a tree, a human being, or whatever. That does not make thought good or bad; it is simply thought.
What you may want to consider is the world of humanity is asleep. Anything we say to the sleeping world (or person) can only be interpreted through their dreams as you have put it. So even to say "There is only what is," is to further add weight to the dream.
This is not to point fingers, mind you. Not at all. Takuin has probably said such things countless times. It can be careless to just tell someone it is What Is, but depending on the interaction with another living human being, it may end up being 'necessary'. We of course cannot know what will come up in a conversation, and we always have to take it one step at a time if we are really interested in listening and sharing.
Sometimes we have to share in the dreams of others. It is not that we deny their trials and tribulations, or tell them their pain has no meaning only because we might see it in another way. That is insensitive and not helpful to a dreamer. If you want to help another human being, you have to help them through their own landscape, and not force them into your own.
Of course, sometimes this is not necessary at all. But compassion always knows when to and when not to.
In response to the post above me, your response to Sass, if there are no separate individuals, how can we assign fault to them?
No fault was assigned. But let's not place too much value on the words themselves. Before we make a move, we should find out from the speaker, whoever that might be, what they meant to say. But in most cases this is not necessary, as we can easily explore through the current interaction, as we are doing now...
Thank you very much, Shinai, for your wonderful questions and exploration. Please feel free to comment below if you wish. I am sure many of the regular readers here will also have much to say on this topic.
NOTE: To see the comment in its original context, click here.